4B.1 Safety
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
4B.1 Safety
For all muni events, riders must wear shoes, knee pads, gloves/wrist-guards and helmets
(see definitions in chapter 1D.1). Additional equipment such as shin, elbow or ankle
protection are optional.
Water and food are the responsibility of the rider. Hosts may offer food and water
stations at their discretion.
I would remove wrist-guards from required and add back protection as optional.
I am not sure why wrist-guards found it's place in the rule. I've almost never seen someone wearing them. More over, those would likely make hold less secure and result in crashes more often. No to mention that locking the wrist makes fingers more vulnerable for fractures.
If I am correct that the reason for the gloves is to protect skin, I would insist to add "full finger" (gloves)
Comment
"I would remove wrist-guards from required and add back protection as optional."
Good idea.
"If I am correct that the reason for the gloves is to protect skin, I would insist to add "full finger" (gloves)"
I think the point of gloves is mostly for protecting the palms so short finger gloves should be allowed as well.
Comment
Actually there is a definition of "gloves" in 1D.1:
Gloves: (For racing) Any glove with thick material covering the palms (Leather is acceptable,
thin nylon is not). Gloves may be fingerless, such as bicycling gloves, provided
the palm of the hand is completely covered. Wrist guards, such as those used with in-line
skates, are an acceptable alternative to gloves.
Than I would just remove "wrist guards" - such that it doesn't suggest that it is a good thing in Muni.
Comment
Although I agree that very few experienced riders choose to wear wrist guards, I think it is important to remember that the rules also apply for beginner categories, where I have often seen beginner riders ride with wrist guards, partly as they may not have any biking gloves (but have wrist guards from inline skating) but also for fear of wrist injuries (I also know some more experienced muni riders who wear special skate/luge wrist guards that offer extra protection but allow for more movement). I think for quite few beginner muni riders at Unicon have done almost no muni and are just trying it out, which is fine for the beginner category. As the current rule uses a slash to mean or "gloves/wrist-guards ", I would leave the rule unchanged.
I also agree with Ben, that while full finger gloves are often a good choice, especially for downhill, fingerless gloves can also be sufficient, especially for uphill or cross-country (yes, it states "For all muni events,"). I personally wear fingerless gloves for uphill.
Thus, I do not see the need for any change concerning wrist guards.
As to the optional: Perhaps use "recommended" instead of optional? e.g. "back protector and full-fingered gloves are recommended for Downhill."
And if also listing optional safety equipment, then maybe also mention "full-face helmet optional/recommended for Downhill."
And maybe backpack as option for back protector?
Looking at the current wording, I think optional would also be OK, although I think like this would be even better:
"Additional equipment such as shin, elbow or ankle protection are optional. Back protector/backpack and full-fingered gloves are recommended for Downhill, full-face helmet is optional."
Comment
I would agree with everything Nathan has written here.
Comment
The *intent* of the current rule is to require gloves *or* wristguards. But the punctuation is not clear. Probably my wording, going many generations of Rulebook. History: We have always allowed wristguards as far as I can remember. Gloves were definitely dominant over the years but a small percentage of riders were choosing that higher level of protection. The current rule is intended to allow either (or both). If we are okay with wristguards that don't include gloves, we can just change the / to "or", which is my recommendation.
BUT: we don't have a definition of what an acceptable wristguard is. If there are products on the market that protect wrists but leave the rest of the hand uncovered, I'm not comfortable allowing that. I just did a quick should Google search on "wristguards" and the first hit was a Rawlings "wristguard" for baseball/softball, that just goes around the wrist. :-(
I believe we must allow riders to protect their wrists, which means we'll need to develop a definition for wristguards to fit our requirements. The main focus of that definition should be around protection of the palms as well as wrists and ultimately recommends products that are protective to the hands. I don't think we need to require that they cover the fingers, if we are still okay with palm-focused gloves.
My history with wristguards: I own a pair, but have only used them a few times. They make it very inconvenient to hold a (conventional) camera! Got to admit I've never tried them with a smartphone camera... The few times I used them were for racing on big wheels, namely the Criterium at Ride the Lobster, and a possibly some other Crit races, in which I also wore my KH leg armor.
The Track rules probably have the same wording on wristguards, so we'll have to keep that in mind. As a general rule we should try not to duplicate things within the rulebook; this can lead to confusion if one definition gets updated and the other one doesn't, and in a general glazing over of the readers' eyes because there is too much information.
Comment
"gloves/wristguards" should theoretically be sufficient because: wristguards are included in a definition of gloves.
1D.1 ... Gloves: (For racing) Any glove with thick material covering the palms (Leather is acceptable,
thin nylon is not). Gloves may be fingerless, such as bicycling gloves, provided
the palm of the hand is completely covered. Wrist guards, such as those used with in-line
skates, are an acceptable alternative to gloves.
Comment
I agree with the latest suggestion by Maksym. As its a very simple change, I think this is ready for a proposal. Modifications to the definition of what a suitable wristguard is could be done by the Main Committee.
Comment
Wrist guards use is already granted in definition of gloves. Full Face helmets is just another construction of the helmet, and is already allowed by the current definition of the helmet, therefore I would not make additional wording that states that it is optional. It could be recommended, but personally I do not recommend it either.
Let's try to make final wording:(removed, added)
4B.1 Safety
For all muni events, riders must wear shoes, knee pads, gloves/wrist-guards and helmets
(see definitions in chapter 1D.1). Additional equipment such as shin, elbow or ankle
protection are optional. Back protector or backpack and full-fingered gloves are recommended for Downhill.
Water and food are the responsibility of the rider. Hosts may offer food and water stations at their discretion.
Comment
Maksym -- all looks good to me. Please make a proposal.
Comment
Since there were no further comments here, I would put the proposals to a vote soon and hope that all members of the committee will also take part in the vote.
Once voting has started, comments will no longer be possible here, so if there are any comments, please comment here as soon as possible.
Comment
Good discussion! And looks like a good end-product to update that section. I'm ready to vote!