14B.9.5 Penalty box: time out (Closed for comments)
Comments about this discussion:
Started
Currently, the rules about the penalty box do not include any information how the process is. In my opinion, important information is missing and needs to be added:
- The referees will take a time out when sending a player off the field (There is only the sentence The timer should be stopped while referees discuss the appropriate punishment and explain their ruling to players). Stopping the time is crucial to have a specific start when the 2 (or 5) min start.
- Where will this player be or go? In my opinion, this should be a separated area from the rest of the team.
- Who is responsible for communicating to the player that he may participate again in the game (referee, timer, ...)?
Comment
I agree with this.
Separate the player from the team as it is a penalty and should not be used as time to discuss tactics.
I agree with putting in a line about stopping the time to give a penalty. It does often occur this way as the referees discuss before making the call. But I think it is good to include.
Who is responsible. This is trickier. Usually in ice hockey there is someone working with the referees to open the doors to allow someone back on at the correct time. The timer is responsible for following the time penalty, but they can't leave their seat to go to tell someone to come back on. A helper is needed, but I would be hesitant about requiring that in the rulebook as I don't think having an extra volunteer for occasional fouls is necessary.
We could request that one player from a team that just played (or each team) provide a player to sit and watch the next game from the timing box to be the person to tell people when fouls are completed. That would result in a referee from each team and one player required to sit for the extra time in case of penalties.
If we started calling more fouls, then I think it would be necessary.
Comment
Thanks for your comment!
One thing I forgot: In my opinion it should also be added to the rules that the timer writes down the time when the penalty box was given. This ensures the 2min penalty box is also stopped if another time out occurs during the duration of the penalty box. We had some issues in Switzerland where this was not the case and times were mixed up. Writing down the time is very simple and ensures fairness.
Comment
I agree. Currently 14C.2.4 The Timer says "In the case of a send-o, the timer records the time of send-off and the time the
offender or substitute player will be allowed back on to the eld." Recording the time of send off would require the timer to write it down based on that wording.
So 14B.9.5 Penalty Box says
The referee can send a player off the field for two minutes, five minutes or for the re-mainder of the game. When a player is sent off for the remainder of the game they may not take part in the current match or their teams following match. However, after a five minute period the penalised team may bring a player on. These penalties are given in the case of unsporting behavior and also for intentional or dangerous disregard of the rules. While a player is in the penalty box, the team may not substitute a replacement for that player. The referees should consider the following guidelines when punishing a player. The timer should be stopped while referees discuss the appropriate punishment and explain their ruling to players:
We could add
The referee can send a player off the field for two minutes, five minutes or for the re-mainder of the game. When a player is sent off for the remainder of the game they may not take part in the current match or their teams following match. However, after a five minute period the penalised team may bring a player on. These penalties are given in the case of unsporting behavior and also for intentional or dangerous disregard of the rules. While a player is in the penalty box, the team may not substitute a replacement for that player. When enforcing a penalty, the referee should stop the timer for the referees to discuss the required punishment, provide a precise start time for the penalty, and to explain their ruling to players. The referees should consider the following guidelines when punishing a player:
14C.2.4 The Timer
The Timer checks the time of play with a stopwatch and/or with a score board. The time
is started whenever the referee starts the game by blowing the whistle. Each period is
ended by the sound of the score board (e.g. horn, bell, gong) or the blowing of a whistle
by the timer. The Timer also stops the time whenever the referee requests a stoppage of
time. In the case of a send-o, the timer records the time of send-off and the time the
offender or substitute player will be allowed back on to the eld.
I don't think there needs to be a change here.
We also have
We have the wording under 14C.2.6 General
The referees suspend the game if an injury occurs. Afterwards, a free shot is given to the
team that was in possession of the ball at the time of the interruption. If it is unclear
who was in possession, the game is continued with a face-off.
14C.2.6 is quite long, I am not sure we need a change here if we implement the change in "Penalty Box" section
Comment
I agree that we need to clarify things here.
About the responsibility: How about leaving that to the timed-out player. They are responsible to not enter the pitch again early. When they enter the referee will notice and when it was too early, they would get another sort of penalty for that? We could specifically have the second referee have an eye on that to ensure that the player isn't too early and make the penalty for being too early rather harsh so that it wont occur?
I feel like having another player or volunteer to sit and watch for those things is unnecessary, as it happens so rarely, even with potentially stricter rules.
Also to the question where the player will go: Are the players allowed to re-enter the game wherever they want? That could lead to spicy situations when for example they reenter infront of the oppositions goal unexpectedly. We maybe need to clarify that too, what about they need to reenter behind their own goal.
Comment
I don't think we should leave the timing to the player who was sent off as it is imprecise, and subject to errors. I think the referee is not the best person to be mentally remembering at what second the player is legally entering the field, while also conducting other roles.
If the referee doesn't have the capacity to remember the exact time that the player can reenter the field, then it means the timekeeper will need to do that job, which should be fine as they also have paper. Therefore, if the timekeeper is ensuring two minute penalty is being adhered to, then it makes sense that someone working with the timekeeper could also be the person to tell the player when they can reenter the field.
If all 2 min penalties require a stoppage of time then I believe we could find a person at the moment that a 2 minute penalty is decided on who will sit with the timekeeper for the two-minute penalty and tell the penalised player when they can reenter the field when signalled by the timekeeper.
Every time a 2 minute send off has occurred it usually involves the referee telling the timekeepers what needs to happen, I think it's feasible that finding a messenger can be included very quickly in this process.
I believe the instructions should be somewhat similar to what is below.
"Cris we are giving a 2-minute penalty for repeated infringements, number 10 can enter again at 14 minutes 24 seconds, *point to someone next to the timing desk* are you willing to be the messenger for the timekeeper to tell the player when they can reenter? Good? ok"
I don't think that exchange needs to be in the rulebook, but I think it shows it is possible to find a messenger at the moment the penalty is given. I don't think we should bother putting in a requirement for an entirely new volunteer position to sit at all games in case there is a time-out. For all big matches that I have witnessed we often have two timekeepers scorers so for large matches I don't see there being an issue.
Given that we are saying the time must be stopped before someone is sent off, a person in the hall who is within the vicinity of the timing desk can be given the task to work with the timekeeper at that point. As long as the REFEREE and TIMER both know their task, I think we can trust a spectator in the vicinity to take the message to the player when directed by the time keeper.
I am yet to watch a smaller match where there was not a single extra person in the hall who would be a messenger. If we have a match where there is not a single person in the hall there often isnt even a timekeeper and it should be left to the second referee to time it. In that case, it seems it would likely be a very low level game and there would be few complaints.
Comment
"finding a messenger" / new volunteer ..."to take the message to the player when directed by the time keeper"
Please keep it simple. Normally "The "Timer" and "The Secretary" are sitting next to each other. If needed they should give assistance to each other.
Add at 14C.2.3 The Secretary: "Secretary supports the timer."
Add at 14C.2.4 The Timer: "The Timer supports the secretary."
"Intentionally having too many players on the field." is already an example for a 2-min punishment.
Comment
Thanks for opening the proposal regarding the time stoppage!
I was not aware that we already have the rule about noting the time of the send-off, so no change of rules necessary in that regard (although an addition or clarification in the penalties section may be helpful).
Maybe, we do not need to specify how exactly this is communicated to the player but that the timer and / or secretary are responsible for that? This would allow for different options (e.g., via speaker, directly to the player if she/he is close by, or via a messenger). I don't think we can leave that to the player that was sent off.
Lastly, I think we should clarify that the player that is sent off has to go to a dedicated area. I don't think we need to be very specific. I think adding that (i) this area is separated from the team and (ii) this area is within the teams own half (indirectly also ensuring that if two players from different teams are sent off, they are not in the same area) would be enough.
Comment
yes i agree with most here.
Player is sent to seperate bench,
timekeeper notes tine of sendout,
timekeeper lets player reenter game.
Comment
@Steven: can you add to the open proposal (https://iuf-rulebook-2025.committees.unicycling-software.com/proposals/15) the addition in rule 14C.2.4 The Timer that the timer is responsible for communicating the end of the penalty box?
Comment
done