Introduction of mandatory classes for rewarding championship titles
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
As suggested in the other discussion, I would create the following initial proposal for the classes:
1C.x Classes (to be added between 1C.6 and 1C.7)
1. Classes reward championship titles. Boundaries of a class ensure equal conditions to compete for that title. There are two classes:
i) Junior (<14)
ii) Adult (15+)
2. Classes can never be merged. Organizers may choose to only offer competitions in one of the classes, but if they allow competitors of both classes, they need to be separate.
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I support this.
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I support this though I am still much in favor of the term Senior over Adult. It's more consistent with other sports and also generally we don't consider under 18 to be an adult.
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> I support this though I am still much in favor of the term Senior over Adult. It's more consistent with other sports and also generally we don't consider under 18 to be an adult.
You're right that it's a bit strange to refer to under- 18-year-olds as adults.
I used the term in the proposal mainly because it was already used in other committees here for the corresponding class. But I agree with you that in other sports Senior or sometimes Elite is usually used and not Adult.
I would have no problem swapping Adult for Senior (Elite would need some alignement with the Muni chapter otherwise this would be also fine for me) - how does the rest of the committee see it?
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As a german the word Senior feels weird, but I trust Patricia here.
I would go for Senior.
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Since no one else has commented, I have adapted the proposal as suggested by Patricia. If the term “Senior” is more common in English, I think we should use that term. As I said, the only alternative I can think of would be “Elite,” which I believe is often used in cycling for the highest class.
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As I learned, there has been a survey amonst german freestylers (I wasn't part of, I'm reciting) about the word to use for the not-junior-riders anymore, the word "senior" has been classified as discriminating, for the reasons I outlined above: it "marks" riders as elders.
As much as countries can translate the terms to their native conterparts, not many do. In germany we use the english terms, as it is faster and the german terms are often a mouthful. That argument is off the table. English btw does the same with many (anatomical) latin words.
Also, when we did the research around "youth" and what other sports use, there is no unity either. Many words with many agespans.
I believe Patricia in saying that this is what she is using, as maybe grown up with. I'm also asking you for a little bias check. Sorry, the best example I can make is in the sentence: "As a white man, I don't see problems with racism" - there sure is a term to describe that situation, but I don't know it; you'll get the idea.
So Adult is the probably the more general term, but also a much more inclusive name. Patricia, if you switch to that perspective in making the terminology we use more inclusive - does that work out?
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> it "marks" riders as elders.
Which is correct, because compared to the riders in the junior category, those in the senior category are indeed older. So, the class is for the eldest participants.
> Also, when we did the research around "youth" and what other sports use, there is no unity either. Many words with many agespans.
That's right, and if you look at the different sports, you'll notice that the term “senior” is quite often used for the top/oldest class (with the exception of the Masters). So it's by no means an unusual term, and it has nothing to do with personal preference. In many sports, it is simply the standard term.
“Adult,” on the other hand, as Patricia already mentioned above, is not really applicable to a 15+ class, since many of the participants are not yet adults. I therefore understand that this term seems inappropriate. In addition, it is not really used in other sports and is therefore much less common than “senior.”
As already mentioned several times, “elite” would be a term that avoids both of the mentioned problems ("Germans' freestylers" rejection of the term “Senior” and the fact that many people in a 15+ class are not yet adults) and is also used in many sports to refer to the highest/oldest class (with the exception of masters).
For the reasons mentioned, I would agree with both “senior” or “elite” as terms.
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I really don't know how to proceed without participation in this discussion. I believe that the majority considers the proposal to be sensible in terms of content—in the end, the only question that remains is what the 15+ class should be called. I would find it more than disappointing if the proposal were ultimately rejected simply because of the term used.
I would therefore ask everyone once again to briefly indicate which of the terms “senior” or “elite” they would prefer and whether they would reject the proposal if either of these terms were used.
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Senior is ok for me!
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Senior
Reason:
Senior refers to an age range. Elite refers to a skill range. We are talking about age classes here, not skill classes.
But I would also support Elite if that's the consensus.
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Senior
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Senior. I agree with Ian that we are talking about age here, not skill.