14B.9.5 Penalty Box

This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.

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Comments about this discussion:

Started 11 Jul 16:34

Although we have added several important points to the penalty box rule (Proposal 15), there are several aspects missing in the current rule or the rules would benefit from clarifications and additions.

• The secretary should note the following information when a penalty box is given: How long is the penalty (2, 5, or match)? Which player received the penalty? When (match time) was it given? Why was it given? This information would be very useful to have as a protocol of the game. Especially the time when the penalty was given is crucial and helps to track whether the penalty time has expired.
• What happes with non-expired penalties at the end of a game? I think this is implicitely clear and they will not continue in another game. However, I believe this shall be noted in the rules. What about in case of extra time? Is a player penalized during extra time allowed to take a penalty shot during a penalty shootout if their penalty time did not expire yet?
• What happens if several penalty boxes are called? This is currently very rare but may become more common (although still rare) if we implement the stricter rules (Discussion 36). Can a team have any number of players sent off at the same time? Will they need to continue playing with less and less players? Or shall there be a minimum? What happens in this case? My suggestion here would be to adapt the rules from floorball / ice hockey (both are very similar) and let teams play with a minimum of 3 players but additional penalties are delayed (their time will only count down after another penalty has expired).
• What happens if a player who already has received a 2min e.g. insults the referees? Will they automatically get a 5min or will they get 2x2min? Is the latter possible and what would happen then?
• What happens when there was an offence that would require a 2min penalty box but the referees do not know which player commited the foul?
• What exactly happens in the case of a match penalty? Where does this player need to go? How can the referees (or the time keeper / secretary) make sure the team adheres to the 5min penalty for the team?

I think answering most of these questions isn't hard or may even be obvious. But there still should be some guidelines in the rules about this. My suggestion is to take over most of the regulations / rules from either ice hockey or floorball.

 

Comment 12 Jul 01:16

Agreed. Most seem easy to come up with. Minium of 3 players probably works.

2 players on a 40m field would probably result in very very unusual play though would be quickly rectified if players returned after goals were scored.

I agree that additional penalties will be delayed and only start after people return.

 

Insulting the referee.

Positives of changing to 5 min penalty is that the player is then ruled as having a 5 min penalty which means they need to behave or could get another 5 min send off.

Positives of a 2x2 minute. Potentially easier to implement. Do we need to put wording in to say that anyone can get a double if they commit two fouls? or is it only in the instance that they are penalised then backchat the ref.

Comment 12 Jul 13:09

I agree.

I think 2x2min will be the better and esaier way. First 2min for the fouls and after that there is another 2min for insult or backchat the referee.

I think a minimum of 3 players will work. If there is one more 2min it will start after termination of the first. So Maximum of two players per team can sent off at the same time. 

Comment 13 Jul 06:24

At first the rules in 14B.4 Number Of Players should give some more answers.

"A team on the field consists of up to five players with a team requiring a minimum of three players to begin a match." For playing unicycle hockey a minimum of 2 players are reqired, otherwise this team is unable to pass or executed a indirect freeshot. 

A team currenly with only 3 player can carry on playing with 2 players in case of injuries or sent offs for 2 min. ("2 players on a 40m field would probably result in very very unusual play", yes unusualy, but should be allowed, perhaps the oposing team has only 3 players left.)

The rules in 14B.4 Number Of Players gives no aswers to following questions:

1. What should happen to the result (score) of the game if a team not showing or have not enough players to begin a match?
2. What should happen to the playtime if a team is unable to continue a game because of the shortage of currently allowed numbers of players?
3. What should happen to the result (score) of this game if a team is unable to finish a game because of the shortage of allowed players?

First ideas:

1. The score should be 0:10 listed.
2. The playtime should end at once.
3. The score should add 10 goals on top against this team in lists of results.
   

 

Comment 16 Jul 16:19

Insulting the referees was just an example to ask whether giving several 2min to the same player should be possble. The specific case may warrant a 5min.

Thanks at Herbie for raising these additional questions. I think technically, 1 player is enough to execute a free shot. That player can execute the free shot but cannot keep possession of the ball. For your three questions: I think 1) and 3) should lead to a forfeit and I agree with 2) that game shall be stopped. There may be the case that a team leads by more than 10 goals (or any number we define), so adding a fixed number of goals will always lead to problems (as I think this team should not be able to win this match). Additionally, I think the rulebook should not give any specific numbers on forfeit (similar to play time). Stating in the rules that when a team cannot put the required minimum (1, 2, 3??) on the field, they will lose forfeit should be enough in my opinion.

Comment 19 Jul 00:50

If a team (already listed in the tournament plan) doesn`t show or is unable to begin a game for the tables and list a result to calculate with is required. The result should not be 0:0. If a game has to end before the nominated playtime runs down this team reponsible for should be punished with an extra load of goals to calculate with.

If a player was already sent of and if this player should be punished for Insulting or backchat should be added and the player has to sit longer in the penalty box for cooling down. E.g. 2 min direct followed by plus 2 min would be logical and consequential to me, I would agree.

Comment 19 Jul 16:44

Thanks for making the proposal. I think it (together with the other proposal) answers almost all of the above questions. A few suggestions / comments:

• To keep the rules structured clearly, I suggest to do several new subheadings within 14B.9.5. These include 2min, 5min, and match penalty headings with the associated sentences and the list of offences that lead to them (and additionally a sub-heading with "multiple penalties").
• I suggest to explicitely add that a penalies player may not take part in the penalty shootout (I reworded accordingly below).
• I'm not sure the formulation "legal maximum" is the best we can do, but I also currently have no better suggestion. So no suggestion for a change.
• We do not have "minor", "major", or match penalties but 2min, 5min, and match penalties (changes in 14C.2.3 The Secretary). We could rename them but for now I suggest to keep the 2min and 5min.
• I suggest to move / copy the first two sentences from Proposal 87 (Penalty Termination) here, as they are generally only a specification of the rules and not really a rule change.
• Maybe, we should think about harmonizing language. Do we call these penalties, send-offs, ...? I didn't adapt or include anything related to that.

I'll try to put everything together for 14B.9.5 (just new with changes highlighted), but I'm not sure I manage with proper formatting. Rules should be italic, while normal font is comments. New rules (including from current proposal) is in bold, old sentences (although somtimes moved) is normal font.

14B.9.5 Player Send-off

The referee can send a player off the field for two minutes, five minutes or for the remainder of the game. These penalties are given in the case of unsporting behavior and also for intentional or dangerous disregard of the rules.

If a player from the team in possession of the ball commits an offence warranting a 2-min, 5-min, or match penalty, the referee shall immediately interrupt the game and impose the penalty. If a player from the team not in possession commits such an offence, advantage shall be played until the offending team gains control of the ball, at which point play is stopped (including stoppage of timer) and the penalty assessed.

In instances of a penalty, the offending team must play with one fewer than their legal maximum for the duration of the penalty, or until the end of the current match, whichever comes first. Any unexpired penalty at the end of regular time shall remain in effect during extra time and also any penalty shootout (14B.5.2) if applicable. All penalties except match penalties shall be considered terminated only after the final result of the match is determined, including any penalty shootout if applicable.

If the referees are unable to identify the offender, (e.g. incorrect substitution), the team captain shall choose a non-penalised player to serve the penalty. If the team captain cannot provide a player or is themselves penalised, the referees shall choose the player.

Penalized players are prohibited from communicating with their team for the duration of the penalty. When enforcing a penalty, the referee should signal to stop the timer to discuss the required punishment, provide a precise start time for the penalty, and to explain their ruling to players.

14B.9.5.1 2-Minute Penalty (new heading)

14B.9.5.2 5-Minute Penalty (new heading)

While a player is in the penalty box for a 5-min penalty, the team may not substitute a replacement for that player (Exception: 14B.9.5.5 Multiple Penalties).

The following list of offences lead to a 5-minute penalty; however, this list is not exhaustive.

[...] (list of offences, see text in Proposal 69)

14B.9.5.3 Match Penalty (new heading)

When a player is sent off for the remainder of the game, they may not take part in the current match and their team's following match. However, in the current match, the penalised team may bring a player on after a five minute period. The offending player is removed from the match but does not enter the penalty box. A non-penalised player, selected by the offending team’s captain, must serve the five-minute penalty in the penalty box. If the captain is unable to select a player, the referees shall choose one. Once the five-minute penalty has expired, that player may return to the field.

The following list of offences lead to a match penalty; however, this list is not exhaustive.

[...] (list of offences, see text in Proposal 69)

Comment 23 Jul 13:44

What do the others think? Additional opinions would be very welcome!

I think it could be very useful to wait with sending this proposal to vote until the results from the stricter penalty is visible. Then we can adapt this proposal accordingly. The time should be enough before the 3rd of August, when all proposals need to be sent to vote.

Comment 24 Jul 19:55

I generally like all of it. 

Most seems a reordering and I think it works. It removes the 14B.9.6 penalty box I created and I think it works.

Question. The only real removal I see is the removal of  A penalised team captain may not communicate with the referees unless directly addressed by them

Penalized players are prohibited from communicating with their team for the duration of the penalty. A penalised team captain may not communicate with the referees unless directly addressed by them. When enforcing a penalty, the referee should signal to stop the timer to discuss the required punishment, provide a precise start time for the penalty, and to explain their ruling to players.

Was this intentional?

I would put the (Exception: 14B.9.5.5 Multiple Penalties)  into the multiple penalties proposal but think it makes sense.

14B.9.5.1 2-Minute Penalty

While a player is in the penalty box for a 2-minute penalty, the team may not substitute a replacement for that player. (Exception: 14B.9.5.5 Multiple Penalties).

and

While a player is in the penalty box for a 5-min penalty, the team may not substitute a replacement for that player (Exception: 14B.9.5.5 Multiple Penalties).

 

 

 

 

 

I would add these into the multiple penalties proposal.

 

 

Comment 25 Jul 02:02

That removal was not intended, thanks for spotting!

Putting the references into the other proposal makes sense.

Comment 27 Jul 03:38

I am also positive to the rearrangements and clarifications, thanks for putting these together!