Missing in the Rules: When Is a Goal Considered Scored?

This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.

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Comments about this discussion:

Started 20 May 08:49

I've noticed that the rules do not define what it actually means to have scored a goal. I believe we should specify that the entire ball must have crossed the goal line. At this point, it might also be useful to address how to handle situations where the goal has been displaced, as i don't think that has been adressed yet.

I would suggest:
14.B.7.1. General: 

A goal is considered scored when the entire ball has completely crossed the goal line between the goalposts and beneath the crossbar, provided that no rule violation has occurred by the attacking team.

 

And 14.B.7.2. Displaced Goal

If the goal cage is displaced, a goal may still be awarded if the ball crosses the area where the goal line would have been, between the original positions of the posts and beneath the imaginary crossbar, and if the displacement was caused by the defending team or occurred unintentionally.

The other entries would need to be newly numbered accordingly.

 

I am not sure about the „if the goal cage is displaced“ wording, in "14.B.8.6. Moving the goal" we state "The players are not allowed to move the goal." so we should probably be consistent in the wording here, but as a non native speaker I'm unsure because of the two different meanings of "goal" which are both used here.

 

(I'll make a new discussion about displaced goal cages in general)

 

What do you think of this?

Comment 22 May 11:35

I agree that somewhere there should be a definition of when a goal is a goal. I would just replace “completly” with “full diameter” in your suggestion above. And I'm not sure if we need the second part of the sentence “ provided that no rule violation has occurred by the attacking team.” needed. The other sections then describe when a goal does not count (with hand, long-range shot, ...). anyway.

Not sure about the displaced goal session. How would we handle it today? Penalty goal or 6,5m?

Comment 23 May 01:14

I agree that the rules do not cover this.

For me, something else is also unclear. Usually (at least in Switzerland), the front part of the goal is placed on the front part (towards field center) of the goal line. Does the ball need to completely cross the goal line with e.g. 5 cm width or is it enough if the ball completely crosses the front part of the goal line (so no longer is with any part in the field center but just partly over the goal line and partly behind the goal line)? I think this detail should also be included in a potential addition. Based on other sports, the rule is usually implemented with the ball needing to completely cross the entire width of the goal line.

In floorball, the most similar rule is:

Comment 24 May 03:47

In German league I have seen diverend typs of goals in the gyms, the post varios something between 2 to 10 cm. Therefore the goal line (marked or not) will vary as well with the goal posts.

I judge a goal scored when the entire ball has completely crossed the goal line or all parts of the ball are behind the rear end of the goal line. If the goal has been displaced slightly (by foul or no foul) I would use the imagine goal line. If the goal has been displaced more than slighly I stop the game by blowing the whistle and I stop the time. When the game has stopped no goal is allowed to score and the referres have time to sort out who was responsible for the displaced goal and happens this intentional or not. 

If not intentional displaced or both referres can not decide who displaced it, I would give a face-off at a corner.

If a attacking player intentional displaced the goal > Intentional foul > 2-min punishment > game restarts with goalies-ball.

If a defending player intentional displaced the goal > Intentional foul > 2-min punishment > 14B.9.3 Penalty Goal:  Penalty Goal, in doubt only 6.5m

And if I am not quick enough to blow the whistle the game is ongoing (advantage given) the ball crosses the imagine goal line of the displaced goal I score goal. But by"Additionally, at the referee’s discretion, offending players may be sent off after advantage has been played."

A sentence direct after "14B.7 Goal Shots" and before "14B.7.1 Goal Shot With Arms Or Hands" as suggested before "A goal is considered scored when the entire ball has completely crossed the goal line between the goalposts and beneath the crossbar." will here be enough for clarification. 

#Good referring is a hard job.#

 

 

Comment 22 Jun 23:36

I agree with all the above about giving a goal even if goals have been displaced. I think we should provide something that states that a goal only counts if no infringement has occured as I have had people give a goal despite high sticks saying that the goal went in before the stick was high.

Can we include in the rulebook a specification for how the goal line should be stuck down, and define the goal as being scored when the ball has fully crossed the front edge of that line?

We should standardise that the front edge of the goal line (the edge closest to the centremark) must be in line with the front face of the goalposts. Then, a goal would be awarded only when the entire ball has completely passed this front edge.

This would ensure consistency regardless of tape width.  Otherwise the distance the ball needs to travel to be considered a goal would vary depending on whether someone uses 2 cm or 8 cm wide tape for the goal line. Either that or we need to state tape width.

Comment 29 Jun 13:06

So, taking together, we could add as a new rule:

A goal is considered scored when the entire ball passes the front edge of the goal line from the front, having been played in a correct way, and no offence has been committed by the attacking team in connection with, or immediately before, the goal.
This includes when the goal cage is out of position, and if the displacement was caused by the defending team or occurred unintentionally, and the ball passes the front edge of the goal line from the front between the marks for the posts and below the imaginary position of the bar.

And adding that the front edge of the goal line (the edge closest to the centremark) must be in line with the front face of the goalposts (from Steven). I couldn't find anything related to the goal line in the passed proposal. Is this still open somewhere, I thought this was agreed on??

Comment 29 Jun 15:12

I like the suggestion from nicolai and i think it covers all important things. But i think we need a new number 14B.7.4 because 14B.7.1 is given to Goal Shot With Arms Or Hands

Comment 30 Jun 13:55

Thanks Steven for creating this proposal and also including marking the goal line!

A goal is considered scored when the entire ball crosses the front edge of the goal line from the front, provided it entered from the front of the goals ...

I think there is a unnecessary repetition. Either "... ball crosses the front edge of the goal line from the front, provided it was played ..." or "crosses the front edge of the goal line, provided it entered from the front of the goals and was played legally with".

And if we take the latter, I would remove the "s" of goals (as marked above), but this may also just be my non-native impression.

Comment 30 Jun 15:00

Goal posts are depending on manufacturer between 3.5 and 8.0 cm. The diameter of a tennis ball produced to acordance the ITF between 6.54 und 6.86 cm.

If a ball crosses only the front edge of the goal line from the front the ball and sit on the goal line or travelling along the goal line the proposed new rule gives a goal. Normally nobody will give a goal in this situation because not the full diameter of the ball has ever crossed the goal line.

I have found a generic rule in German, here translated by KI: "A goal is scored when the ball has completely crossed the goal line, which is located between the goalposts and below the crossbar. Importantly, the ball must have completely crossed the line before it is considered a goal."

Therefore I suggest not using "the front edge of the goal line from the front" better would be "rear edge of the goal line from the rear" or the text KI has translated.

Comment 30 Jun 15:05

I think there are a few misunderstandings.

The ball has to completely cross the front edge of the goal line. So if it only touches the goal line, no goal shall be given. Steven suggested to take the front edge, as goal line width may be very different (depending on tape) and the front edge is always the same.

And the "from the front" refers to the travelling direction of the ball (as far as I understand). If for some reason, the ball crosses the goal line from behind (e.g. when the goal (cage) is misplaced, no goal will be awarded.

Comment 30 Jun 16:22

I got your point. I had a misunderstanding with "from the rear". Certainly a ball coming from the backside of the goal crossing the goal line can't be given for a goal. 

"A goal is scored when the ball has completely crossed the goal line from front, which is located between the goalposts and below the crossbar. Importantly, the ball must have completely crossed the line before it is considered a goal." Yes, a "goal line width may be very different (depending on tape)" Important is that the ball has to completely cross the rear end of the goal line. 

Comment 02 Jul 18:14

"Important is that the ball has to completely cross the rear end of the goal line."

The rear end/back edge is the side closest to the back wall behind the goal. For consistency, I think we should use the front edge of the goal line instead.

If we use the back edge, the distance the ball has to travel into the goal depends on the width of the tape or line:

• With 2 cm tape, a goal is scored once the ball crosses 2 cm into the goal.

• With 10 cm tape, the ball has to go 10 cm in.

• If someone uses sports tiles where a tile change marks the goal line, it might be 30 cm deep. e.g. picture of how sport tiles look. I have drawn a red line on where the sports tile finishes. If you don't use the sports tile then you have to have another colour line to distinguish from the red line.

So depending on the setup, a goal could be scored at very different points.

Using the front edge of the line means the rule is always the same — no matter the line width.

If we think the line should match the goal post depth, we could say the front and back of the tape must match the front and back of the post. Then using the rear edge would work. But that would only make sense if the marking is done consistently.

If we think the goal line should match the depth of the goal post (for example, if the post is 8 cm in diameter/deep), then the line on the floor should also be 8 cm deep. That way, the front and back edges of the line line up exactly with the front and back of the goal post.

To do this, someone using 2 cm tape would need to place four strips of tape, one behind the other, to make the line 8 cm wide. Then would it make sense to say the ball must cross the rear edge of the goal line, because that edge would now always be in the same position as the back of the goal post.

But this only works if everyone marks the line in the same way, to match the goal post depth. Otherwise, using the rear edge is inconsistent.

Comment 02 Jul 18:19

I have put in Nicolai's change to remove repetition. I will alter again if needed 

Comment 03 Jul 11:10

I agree with Herbert. Using the rear edge feels much more intutive for me. (Maybe i've been watching too much soccer.)

Yes, thickness of the lines may differ, but when it is the same on both goals on the field it's fair for both teams.

Comment 03 Jul 14:02

If we put in the rear end of the line (which would be acceptable to me too), then I would like to have at least a guideline on how wide the line shall be. I looked it up in the ice hockey and floorball rules. Both have a line width of (approximately) 5 cm. This would also be the somewhat "normal" width of duct tape.

Comment 08 Jul 06:04

The width of this line should be the same as the goalposts.

The width of the goalpost are not fixed in the rule book, we take the goals how they provided by the hosts therefore the goalpost will vary and the width of the goalline should go with them.

Comment 08 Jul 18:09

I made changes to state the thickness and also reworded the displaced goal ruling. It was incorrect 




14B.7 Goal Shots

A goal is considered scored when the entire ball crosses the rear edge of the goal line, provided it entered from the front of the goal and was played legally with no offence committed by the attacking team immediately before or during the goal.

If the goal is displaced, a goal shall still be awarded if the ball enters the displaced goal and the displacement was caused by the defending team, or if the ball crosses the marked goal line between the original positions of the goalposts and beneath the imaginary crossbar.

14B.7.2 Goal Shot With Arms Or Hands
...

14B.7.3 Long Shot
...

14B.7.4 Ball In The Outside Of The Net
...

14D.3.3 Markings
The center line divides the field into two equal halves, and the center mark is in the
middle of the center line. There are marks in front of each goal at a distance of 6.5 m.
A marked goal line shall connect the goal posts on the ground with the front edge of the goal line (the side closest to the center mark) in line with the front face of the goal posts. The line shall be marked the thickness of the front goal post with the rear edge of the line aligned with the rear face of the goal post. The corner marks are on the extension of the goal lines, 2 m in from the boundaries. The 6.5m lines are parallel to the goal lines and run through the 6.5m marks. The 6.5m lines shall be vertically marked on the barriers or walls of the playing field. The goal areas are between the 6.5m lines and the ends of the field.

Comment 09 Jul 01:33

Why should the width of the goal posts match the width of the goal line? I don‘t see any reason. Also, what counts if the goal posts are rectangular and not circular? The width or depth?

i think it is much easier and more standardized if we just use eg 5cm as goal line width. Then at least the scoring of goals is similar in different venues although the goals (posts) may still be different.

Comment 09 Jul 01:35

I already worked out there is an issue with this logic anyway. We sometimes use popup goals. They are sturdy enough but the front post is a strap. You cant make a line the thickness of the strap so a set distance would be required.

14D.3.3 Markings
The center line divides the field into two equal halves, and the center mark is in the
middle of the center line. There are marks in front of each goal at a distance of 6.5 m.
A 5 cm thick marked goal line shall connect the goal posts on the ground, with the front edge of the goal line (the side closest to the center mark) in line with the front face of the goal posts. The corner marks are on the extension of the goal lines, 2 m in from the boundaries. The 6.5m lines are parallel to the goal lines and run through the 6.5m marks. The 6.5m lines shall be vertically marked on the barriers or walls of the playing field. The goal areas are between the 6.5m lines and the ends of the field.

Comment 09 Jul 01:36

@Steven: Have you already incorporated the changes? I think the official proposal does not match 100% with what you have posted here!?

Comment 09 Jul 01:59

Yes I was doing. Thanks Jan